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	<title>Comments on: Beating the Clock Solitaire</title>
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	<link>http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2005/05/31/beating-the-clock-solitaire/</link>
	<description>A blog for odd things and odd thoughts.</description>
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		<title>By: chloe</title>
		<link>http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2005/05/31/beating-the-clock-solitaire/comment-page-1/#comment-193479</link>
		<dc:creator>chloe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 09:41:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/?p=25#comment-193479</guid>
		<description>[For the record, there was a crude troll comment posted, which I have removed because it lowered the tone too much. However, lest I am accused of suppressing criticism, suffice to say someone calling themselves Chloe doesn&#039;t like me much because I was rude about Clockwork patience. - Julian]

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[For the record, there was a crude troll comment posted, which I have removed because it lowered the tone too much. However, lest I am accused of suppressing criticism, suffice to say someone calling themselves Chloe doesn't like me much because I was rude about Clockwork patience. - Julian]</p>
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		<title>By: Julian</title>
		<link>http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2005/05/31/beating-the-clock-solitaire/comment-page-1/#comment-142390</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/?p=25#comment-142390</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Beggar My Neighbour (also known as Strip Jack Naked) can last forever&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Here&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://gowers.wordpress.com/2008/04/05/open-problems-concerning-card-games/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;an article&lt;/a&gt; that discusses this (and also briefly, the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2005/06/28/analysing-the-first-move-of-klondike/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;probability of Klondike being solvable&lt;/a&gt;.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Beggar My Neighbour (also known as Strip Jack Naked) can last forever</p></blockquote>
<p>Here&#8217;s <a href="http://gowers.wordpress.com/2008/04/05/open-problems-concerning-card-games/" rel="nofollow" class="liexternal">an article</a> that discusses this (and also briefly, the <a href="http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2005/06/28/analysing-the-first-move-of-klondike/" rel="nofollow" class="liinternal">probability of Klondike being solvable</a>.)</p>
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		<title>By: OddThinking &#187; Shuffling and Ownage</title>
		<link>http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2005/05/31/beating-the-clock-solitaire/comment-page-1/#comment-80067</link>
		<dc:creator>OddThinking &#187; Shuffling and Ownage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2007 07:48:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/?p=25#comment-80067</guid>
		<description>[...] player implementation of Klondike it isn&#8217;t important. My main use of card-shuffling is for Monte Carlo simulations. The idea that someone could crack the code and start predicting what was going to come next is [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] player implementation of Klondike it isn&#8217;t important. My main use of card-shuffling is for Monte Carlo simulations. The idea that someone could crack the code and start predicting what was going to come next is [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Azz</title>
		<link>http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2005/05/31/beating-the-clock-solitaire/comment-page-1/#comment-20509</link>
		<dc:creator>Azz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Nov 2006 01:48:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/?p=25#comment-20509</guid>
		<description>WOW! What are you an undergraduate in?

Obviously have too much time on your hands but i really enjoyed reading it and i like the way you think!
and from now on i&#039;m not going to be wasting my time dealing out the cards in 13 separate piles of 4 but instead just use the pile of 52 cards i have in my hand!

or better still, play classic solitaire instead!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WOW! What are you an undergraduate in?</p>
<p>Obviously have too much time on your hands but i really enjoyed reading it and i like the way you think!<br />
and from now on i&#8217;m not going to be wasting my time dealing out the cards in 13 separate piles of 4 but instead just use the pile of 52 cards i have in my hand!</p>
<p>or better still, play classic solitaire instead!</p>
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		<title>By: Julian</title>
		<link>http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2005/05/31/beating-the-clock-solitaire/comment-page-1/#comment-69</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2005 08:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/?p=25#comment-69</guid>
		<description>&lt;!-- UnMarkedDown_2_01132522549--&gt;&lt;p&gt;Andrew,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You haven&#039;t taken into account the chance that the judge has bet on &lt;em&gt;you&lt;/em&gt; and has detected that you are going to &lt;em&gt;lose&lt;/em&gt;. Given you are likely to lose more often than you win, perhaps this could be considered more likely?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If we are taking this sort of issue into account, I would object to being asked to shuffle on completely different grounds. I have wasted enough time getting to the finals of this silly competition, and I wouldn&#039;t be impressed by any delaying tactics that prevent me from getting back to viewing Survivor: Antarctic.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- UnMarkedDown_2_01132522549-->
<p>Andrew,</p>
<p>You haven&#8217;t taken into account the chance that the judge has bet on <em>you</em> and has detected that you are going to <em>lose</em>. Given you are likely to lose more often than you win, perhaps this could be considered more likely?</p>
<p>If we are taking this sort of issue into account, I would object to being asked to shuffle on completely different grounds. I have wasted enough time getting to the finals of this silly competition, and I wouldn&#8217;t be impressed by any delaying tactics that prevent me from getting back to viewing Survivor: Antarctic.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Lang</title>
		<link>http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2005/05/31/beating-the-clock-solitaire/comment-page-1/#comment-68</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Lang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2005 03:59:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/?p=25#comment-68</guid>
		<description>&lt;!-- UnMarkedDown_2_01132522547--&gt;&lt;p&gt;Your random number generator doesn&#039;t provide the full experience; you don&#039;t know how close you would have gotten to winning before having your hopes dashed. Instead, you need to generate four random numbers, mod 52, 51, 50 and 49. These tell you how far up the deck the last king was.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You can then include a clock (configurable for your average play speed) which tells you how much time you would have wasted before winning a game. The actual gameplay can be done by computer much faster, saving you time in which you can watch Survivor:Antarctic.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;On a different note, I must agree with your friends on the &quot;shuffling halfway through&quot; issue; there is a small but non-zero probability that the reason you are being offered a shuffle is that the person offering it has detected that you are going to win, but has bet on your opponent. Your analysis, as you note, is correct if you trust everyone involved.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- UnMarkedDown_2_01132522547-->
<p>Your random number generator doesn&#8217;t provide the full experience; you don&#8217;t know how close you would have gotten to winning before having your hopes dashed. Instead, you need to generate four random numbers, mod 52, 51, 50 and 49. These tell you how far up the deck the last king was.</p>
<p>You can then include a clock (configurable for your average play speed) which tells you how much time you would have wasted before winning a game. The actual gameplay can be done by computer much faster, saving you time in which you can watch Survivor:Antarctic.</p>
<p>On a different note, I must agree with your friends on the &#8220;shuffling halfway through&#8221; issue; there is a small but non-zero probability that the reason you are being offered a shuffle is that the person offering it has detected that you are going to win, but has bet on your opponent. Your analysis, as you note, is correct if you trust everyone involved.</p>
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