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	<title>Comments on: Online Photo DB: Stage 1 &#8211; Problem Statement, Loose Requirements</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2008/06/10/requirements-for-an-online-photo-site/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2008/06/10/requirements-for-an-online-photo-site/</link>
	<description>A blog for odd things and odd thoughts.</description>
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		<title>By: OddThinking &#187; Online Photo Database Project - Status</title>
		<link>http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2008/06/10/requirements-for-an-online-photo-site/comment-page-1/#comment-163761</link>
		<dc:creator>OddThinking &#187; Online Photo Database Project - Status</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 13:40:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/?p=549#comment-163761</guid>
		<description>[...] 1 was to produce a problem statement, and a rough list of requirements which I could use to evaluate various [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 1 was to produce a problem statement, and a rough list of requirements which I could use to evaluate various [...]</p>
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		<title>By: OddThinking &#187; Online Photo DB: WordPress mini-evaluation</title>
		<link>http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2008/06/10/requirements-for-an-online-photo-site/comment-page-1/#comment-163696</link>
		<dc:creator>OddThinking &#187; Online Photo DB: WordPress mini-evaluation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 04:45:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/?p=549#comment-163696</guid>
		<description>[...] WordPress&#8217;s readiness to become the CMS behind an online photo database is not a trivial [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] WordPress&#8217;s readiness to become the CMS behind an online photo database is not a trivial [...]</p>
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		<title>By: OddThinking &#187; Online Photo DB: Stage 4n - Evaluation of Flickr Pro</title>
		<link>http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2008/06/10/requirements-for-an-online-photo-site/comment-page-1/#comment-163355</link>
		<dc:creator>OddThinking &#187; Online Photo DB: Stage 4n - Evaluation of Flickr Pro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 12:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/?p=549#comment-163355</guid>
		<description>[...] this same evaluation using an early draft of the requirements. I was impressed that he was &#8220;at least two weeks ahead of me&#8220;, 5 1/2 months [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] this same evaluation using an early draft of the requirements. I was impressed that he was &#8220;at least two weeks ahead of me&#8220;, 5 1/2 months [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Alastair</title>
		<link>http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2008/06/10/requirements-for-an-online-photo-site/comment-page-1/#comment-130508</link>
		<dc:creator>Alastair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 06:39:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/?p=549#comment-130508</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Oh, more questions: I’ve noticed that you want it to read your date and time info from the EXIF, but what if its wrong? Is that one of the little things that’ll need retouching when it’s added to the software and then resynced with your private copy?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Aperture handles this case elegantly: you basically tell it the camera&#039;s timezone and the photo timezone on import, and it works out everything else. (No idea if it can handle the camera-lost-time-reverted-to-factory-time case also, but wouldn&#039;t be surprised)

Frankly my initial exposure to Aperture has consisted mainly of little revelations like this; requirements I didn&#039;t know I even had. They have obviously looked at professional photographers and concentrated on providing a smooth workflow for importing, categorising, editing, publishing and archiving images. And dabblers like me reap the benefit. I shall blog more about this, but even after a short time I am sold on the benefits of this tool and those like it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Oh, more questions: I’ve noticed that you want it to read your date and time info from the EXIF, but what if its wrong? Is that one of the little things that’ll need retouching when it’s added to the software and then resynced with your private copy?</p></blockquote>
<p>Aperture handles this case elegantly: you basically tell it the camera&#8217;s timezone and the photo timezone on import, and it works out everything else. (No idea if it can handle the camera-lost-time-reverted-to-factory-time case also, but wouldn&#8217;t be surprised)</p>
<p>Frankly my initial exposure to Aperture has consisted mainly of little revelations like this; requirements I didn&#8217;t know I even had. They have obviously looked at professional photographers and concentrated on providing a smooth workflow for importing, categorising, editing, publishing and archiving images. And dabblers like me reap the benefit. I shall blog more about this, but even after a short time I am sold on the benefits of this tool and those like it.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Atkins</title>
		<link>http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2008/06/10/requirements-for-an-online-photo-site/comment-page-1/#comment-130335</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Atkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 09:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/?p=549#comment-130335</guid>
		<description>Re formal photos: if you cared enough to worry about what jaunty pose your subjects stand in for the photo, you may also care what arrangement these photos have on the page - you wouldn&#039;t want to ruin the aesthetic you&#039;ve been going for. Deliberately not targeting this kind of user avoids interactive layout issues like this, and may avoid all layout issues (although I bet you&#039;ve got more to say around this too).

&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2008/06/10/requirements-for-an-online-photo-site/#comment-130305&quot;&gt;I have taken well over 1,000 photos for some (multi-day) events.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Damn, somehow I&#039;d completely forgotten about multi-day event photo bonanzas. Here I was thinking the longest anyone would hold a camera for without remuneration was 6 hours. I&#039;m very sorry. No really ;)

Oh, more questions: I&#039;ve noticed that you want it to read your date and time info from the EXIF, but what if its wrong? Is that one of the little things that&#039;ll need retouching when it&#039;s added to the software and then resynced with your private copy?

Is timestamp and location info (e.g. &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geocode&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;geocode&lt;/a&gt;) something you&#039;d want to keep private, or selectively publish?

Will your next camera have a GPS built-in?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re formal photos: if you cared enough to worry about what jaunty pose your subjects stand in for the photo, you may also care what arrangement these photos have on the page &#8211; you wouldn&#8217;t want to ruin the aesthetic you&#8217;ve been going for. Deliberately not targeting this kind of user avoids interactive layout issues like this, and may avoid all layout issues (although I bet you&#8217;ve got more to say around this too).</p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2008/06/10/requirements-for-an-online-photo-site/#comment-130305"><p>I have taken well over 1,000 photos for some (multi-day) events.</p></blockquote>
<p>Damn, somehow I&#8217;d completely forgotten about multi-day event photo bonanzas. Here I was thinking the longest anyone would hold a camera for without remuneration was 6 hours. I&#8217;m very sorry. No really <img src='http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Oh, more questions: I&#8217;ve noticed that you want it to read your date and time info from the EXIF, but what if its wrong? Is that one of the little things that&#8217;ll need retouching when it&#8217;s added to the software and then resynced with your private copy?</p>
<p>Is timestamp and location info (e.g. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geocode" rel="nofollow" class="wikipedia">geocode</a>) something you&#8217;d want to keep private, or selectively publish?</p>
<p>Will your next camera have a GPS built-in?</p>
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		<title>By: Julian</title>
		<link>http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2008/06/10/requirements-for-an-online-photo-site/comment-page-1/#comment-130305</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 06:18:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/?p=549#comment-130305</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I was aiming for some distinction between candid [...] and formal [...] I’m pretty sure you’re not collecting these requirements for this last kind of photographer.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Interesting... It is true, that I am more concerned with the former, but I am at a loss to how it would affect the requirements.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Those crazy kids with their camera phones might take lots of photos, but they keep far less - and certainly don’t publish as many.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Ahh, but maybe that&#039;s because they don&#039;t have the right photo publishing software! Then again, it could be because the photos those phones take are rarely worth keeping.

&lt;blockquote&gt;How many photos would you expect to try and publish from a single event? Is it less than 10? 100? 500? 1000?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I have taken well over 1,000 photos for some (multi-day) events. I would publish 100-200. More typically, I would take 100 photos and publish 25.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I’m thinking only those who know they’re getting paid for their photos would be over the 500 mark, simply because of the amount of time it takes to move between worthwhile shots and any sane person would get tired of taking so many shots.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Clearly demonstrating that I am not sane.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Your feature of not overwhelming people browsing collections with this volume of photos would be key here, especially if you’re linking multiple photographers work for the same event together.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes, agreed.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Also, last I checked camera phones can’t match the quality of a half-decent SLR [...] It may be some time before any of these are addressed in a camera that is also a phone&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes, the camera phones are much poorer quality than an SLR, and I doubt that miniature cameras will ever reach the quality of the much larger equivalents, purely because of lens quality (unless there is an innovation that is far more revolutionary than merely waiting for Moore&#039;s Law.)

&lt;blockquote&gt;Another side effect of not trying to be pro about it is you don’t need to store the super high-res originals, but can stop at breathtakingly large photos for printing on A4 or smaller.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The file-size (at least, for JPG,) is going to be largely determined by the mega-pixel count (and hence, larger for newer phones, than the older DSLRs). As for the originals; I have storing archival quality as (merely) desirable, and storing to A4 quality as important. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;Do you want to store the RAW image file, or only JPEGs?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I didn&#039;t think to specify file formats. JPEG was all I needed. Other formats are just bonuses.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Lastly, do you want to be able to give away ownership of some photos too, or otherwise mark it for Creative Commons usage?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Good point. I worded it as &quot;Attribution of copyright details&quot; in the cleaned up version which I hoped would cover that. Being able to contact the owner is the bare minimum. Being able to tag particular images as open for copying would be nice too. My personal copyright clause is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2007/10/07/nice-guy-in-a-photo-finish/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;fairly open and yet subtle&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I was aiming for some distinction between candid [...] and formal [...] I’m pretty sure you’re not collecting these requirements for this last kind of photographer.</p></blockquote>
<p>Interesting&#8230; It is true, that I am more concerned with the former, but I am at a loss to how it would affect the requirements.</p>
<blockquote><p>Those crazy kids with their camera phones might take lots of photos, but they keep far less &#8211; and certainly don’t publish as many.</p></blockquote>
<p>Ahh, but maybe that&#8217;s because they don&#8217;t have the right photo publishing software! Then again, it could be because the photos those phones take are rarely worth keeping.</p>
<blockquote><p>How many photos would you expect to try and publish from a single event? Is it less than 10? 100? 500? 1000?</p></blockquote>
<p>I have taken well over 1,000 photos for some (multi-day) events. I would publish 100-200. More typically, I would take 100 photos and publish 25.</p>
<blockquote><p>I’m thinking only those who know they’re getting paid for their photos would be over the 500 mark, simply because of the amount of time it takes to move between worthwhile shots and any sane person would get tired of taking so many shots.</p></blockquote>
<p>Clearly demonstrating that I am not sane.</p>
<blockquote><p>Your feature of not overwhelming people browsing collections with this volume of photos would be key here, especially if you’re linking multiple photographers work for the same event together.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, agreed.</p>
<blockquote><p>Also, last I checked camera phones can’t match the quality of a half-decent SLR [...] It may be some time before any of these are addressed in a camera that is also a phone</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, the camera phones are much poorer quality than an SLR, and I doubt that miniature cameras will ever reach the quality of the much larger equivalents, purely because of lens quality (unless there is an innovation that is far more revolutionary than merely waiting for Moore&#8217;s Law.)</p>
<blockquote><p>Another side effect of not trying to be pro about it is you don’t need to store the super high-res originals, but can stop at breathtakingly large photos for printing on A4 or smaller.</p></blockquote>
<p>The file-size (at least, for JPG,) is going to be largely determined by the mega-pixel count (and hence, larger for newer phones, than the older DSLRs). As for the originals; I have storing archival quality as (merely) desirable, and storing to A4 quality as important. </p>
<blockquote><p>Do you want to store the RAW image file, or only JPEGs?</p></blockquote>
<p>I didn&#8217;t think to specify file formats. JPEG was all I needed. Other formats are just bonuses.</p>
<blockquote><p>Lastly, do you want to be able to give away ownership of some photos too, or otherwise mark it for Creative Commons usage?</p></blockquote>
<p>Good point. I worded it as &#8220;Attribution of copyright details&#8221; in the cleaned up version which I hoped would cover that. Being able to contact the owner is the bare minimum. Being able to tag particular images as open for copying would be nice too. My personal copyright clause is <a href="http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2007/10/07/nice-guy-in-a-photo-finish/" rel="nofollow" class="liinternal">fairly open and yet subtle</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff</title>
		<link>http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2008/06/10/requirements-for-an-online-photo-site/comment-page-1/#comment-129753</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:28:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/?p=549#comment-129753</guid>
		<description>&gt;Google can’t find my photos on FaceBook.
&gt;I am happy about that! That is a privacy feature.
OK

&gt;The second complaint is that Facebook can’t find my photos on &gt;FaceBook.
&gt;Your choices seem to be:
&gt;1) First, find the photos application (either with the search box or &gt;under Applications.) and the page through your friends albums &gt;looking for interesting ones.
Easy when you know how. Or have bothered to look.

&gt;(In any case, I didn’t take a camera to my last shin-dig, and the &gt;photos that other people took, I didn’t see you in them. No alibi &gt;for you!)
Weird thing is ... my home  photo is from your shin-dig. I didn&#039;t take it. And I didn&#039;t set it as my home photo. I do recall a monstrous Canon taking photos ... but who could set my home photo? I see that you tagged me in a photo. Hypothesis: this was the first tagged photo so FB makes it my home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;Google can’t find my photos on FaceBook.<br />
&gt;I am happy about that! That is a privacy feature.<br />
OK</p>
<p>&gt;The second complaint is that Facebook can’t find my photos on &gt;FaceBook.<br />
&gt;Your choices seem to be:<br />
&gt;1) First, find the photos application (either with the search box or &gt;under Applications.) and the page through your friends albums &gt;looking for interesting ones.<br />
Easy when you know how. Or have bothered to look.</p>
<p>&gt;(In any case, I didn’t take a camera to my last shin-dig, and the &gt;photos that other people took, I didn’t see you in them. No alibi &gt;for you!)<br />
Weird thing is &#8230; my home  photo is from your shin-dig. I didn&#8217;t take it. And I didn&#8217;t set it as my home photo. I do recall a monstrous Canon taking photos &#8230; but who could set my home photo? I see that you tagged me in a photo. Hypothesis: this was the first tagged photo so FB makes it my home.</p>
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		<title>By: Julian</title>
		<link>http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2008/06/10/requirements-for-an-online-photo-site/comment-page-1/#comment-129078</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 01:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/?p=549#comment-129078</guid>
		<description>Geoff,

I see three complaints here.

The first complaint is that Google can&#039;t find my photos on FaceBook.

I am happy about that! That is a privacy feature.

The second complaint is that Facebook can&#039;t find my photos on FaceBook.

That search box isn&#039;t Google-powered. :-(

Your choices seem to be:

1) First, find the photos application (either with the search box or under Applications.) and the page through your friends albums looking for interesting ones.

2) First, find the person, and view the photos OF THEM, and hope that leads you to interesting albums.

3) First, hope that they tag you in the picture, and then visit the photos of YOU!

(In any case, I didn&#039;t take a camera to my last shin-dig, and the photos that other people took, I didn&#039;t see you in them. No alibi for you!)

See my &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2008/06/13/online-photo-db-stage-4b-evaluation-of-facebook/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;FaceBook evaluation&lt;/a&gt; for more comments about the photo features of FaceBook.

The third complaint is that Preview should appear before Submit Comment. 

Interesting point. It isn&#039;t an option that I can configure, but maybe worth escalating to the plugin author. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geoff,</p>
<p>I see three complaints here.</p>
<p>The first complaint is that Google can&#8217;t find my photos on FaceBook.</p>
<p>I am happy about that! That is a privacy feature.</p>
<p>The second complaint is that Facebook can&#8217;t find my photos on FaceBook.</p>
<p>That search box isn&#8217;t Google-powered. <img src='http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':-(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Your choices seem to be:</p>
<p>1) First, find the photos application (either with the search box or under Applications.) and the page through your friends albums looking for interesting ones.</p>
<p>2) First, find the person, and view the photos OF THEM, and hope that leads you to interesting albums.</p>
<p>3) First, hope that they tag you in the picture, and then visit the photos of YOU!</p>
<p>(In any case, I didn&#8217;t take a camera to my last shin-dig, and the photos that other people took, I didn&#8217;t see you in them. No alibi for you!)</p>
<p>See my <a href="http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2008/06/13/online-photo-db-stage-4b-evaluation-of-facebook/" rel="nofollow" class="liinternal">FaceBook evaluation</a> for more comments about the photo features of FaceBook.</p>
<p>The third complaint is that Preview should appear before Submit Comment. </p>
<p>Interesting point. It isn&#8217;t an option that I can configure, but maybe worth escalating to the plugin author. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff</title>
		<link>http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2008/06/10/requirements-for-an-online-photo-site/comment-page-1/#comment-128756</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:01:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/?p=549#comment-128756</guid>
		<description>This facebook don&#039;t work proper ...
In the above, for
    photos site:facebook.com
read
    angle OddThinking&#039;s surname angle photos site:facebook.com

and for
    photos
read
    angle OddThinking&#039;s surname angle photos

And don&#039;t get me started on the usability of having the Preview button below the Submit Comment button</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This facebook don&#8217;t work proper &#8230;<br />
In the above, for<br />
    photos site:facebook.com<br />
read<br />
    angle OddThinking&#8217;s surname angle photos site:facebook.com</p>
<p>and for<br />
    photos<br />
read<br />
    angle OddThinking&#8217;s surname angle photos</p>
<p>And don&#8217;t get me started on the usability of having the Preview button below the Submit Comment button</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff</title>
		<link>http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/2008/06/10/requirements-for-an-online-photo-site/comment-page-1/#comment-128755</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:56:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/?p=549#comment-128755</guid>
		<description>&gt;Since around November 2007, when an event is organised on Facebook, I have put up the photos of it there

But a Google
     photos site:facebook.com
finds four unrelated sites. 

On facebook.com a search
     photos
gets
    Found no results for ...

So I can&#039;t find any alibi-proving of myself at your last (?) shindig ... and that make me sad</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;Since around November 2007, when an event is organised on Facebook, I have put up the photos of it there</p>
<p>But a Google<br />
     photos site:facebook.com<br />
finds four unrelated sites. </p>
<p>On facebook.com a search<br />
     photos<br />
gets<br />
    Found no results for &#8230;</p>
<p>So I can&#8217;t find any alibi-proving of myself at your last (?) shindig &#8230; and that make me sad</p>
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